Curse

Undead Preacher · Mar 08, 2006, 05:23 AM // 05:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by sno

Please stick to the facts Preacher. I have provided solid evidence based in theory and countless in game tests here, stating that our method is vastly superior to yours. If you can prove otherwise, please do so. When confronted with the clear facts in the other thread here, you simply said that you don't use the build anymore, not offering any evidence to the contrary. Sorry Preacher, but your build is certainly not efficient. It's been proven.

Sorry sno, but i dunno if killing could get faster than the way i do it, i'm sure it could... and if its faster by 1 second thats great, congrats to the man without a life... the point is simple.....its your build is the best, everyone elses suck, and that not true.... i'm(100%) i can kill with my build just as fast or not faster than u can with yours... 95% of the dmg done by an echo ss is dealt with SS.... seriously, i imagine some people are bad necros.. but for those who know what their doing, give it a rest

and I haven't played my necro in forever... He was my first character, I played him non-stop for what seemed like forever... and I have built up a few of my other chars...

you love to flame.... thats great, but flame somewhere other than my post

Oh and by saying you've tested it and your way is better than mine, maybe you just suck at my build...

sno · Mar 08, 2006, 05:44 AM // 05:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by Undead Preacher

.. and if its faster by 1 second thats great, congrats to the man without a life... the point is simple.....its your build is the best, everyone elses suck, and that not true.... i'm(100%) i can kill with my build just as fast or not faster than u can with yours...

I'm not trying to flame, I'm simply trying to get you to understand my point, which you seem to be missing entirely. There are two methods people use to kill smites: echoing SV, and echoing SS. With good timing on both, the first takes at least 30 seconds to kill (perhaps slightly less if you get a lucky recharge on SS) and the latter takes 17 seconds (regardless of any weapon increase.) In the post that I quoted, I proved this using a simple count. This therefore shows that at the very least (omitting fast recharging weapons for the purposes of remaining non-biased) my method takes 13 seconds less than yours to kill a set of smites (yes any set, big or small, 1 or 20.)

It's almost 2x as fast, and more consistant (always takes the exact same ammount of time regardless of the size of the group, so perfecting it is easier.) I've tried to explain this countless times, even going as far as documenting actual skill casting time to prove beyond any reasonable doubt that 17 seconds is in fact considerably less than 30 seconds.

I'm sorry that I'm not explaining it to your satisfaction, and that you see my posts as simply flaming.

Undead Preacher · Mar 08, 2006, 06:03 AM // 06:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by sno

I'm not trying to flame, I'm simply trying to get you to understand my point, which you seem to be missing entirely. There are two methods people use to kill smites: echoing SV, and echoing SS. With good timing on both, the first takes at least 30 seconds to kill (perhaps slightly less if you get a lucky recharge on SS) and the latter takes 17 seconds (regardless of any weapon increase.) In the post that I quoted, I proved this using a simple count. This therefore shows that at the very least (omitting fast recharging weapons for the purposes of remaining non-biased) my method takes 13 seconds less than yours to kill a set of smites (yes any set, big or small, 1 or 20.)

It's almost 2x as fast, and more consistant (always takes the exact same ammount of time regardless of the size of the group, so perfecting it is easier.) I've tried to explain this countless times, even going as far as documenting actual skill casting time to prove beyond any reasonable doubt that 17 seconds is in fact considerably less than 30 seconds.

I'm sorry that I'm not explaining it to your satisfaction, and that you see my posts as simply flaming.

I've never heard of anyone taking 30 seconds to kill smites.... If i go over 10-15 thats longer than it usually takes me..... and i do echo sv, but in no way does it ever take me long to kill smites.... usually around 10 give or take

MasterThrawn · Mar 08, 2006, 03:56 PM // 15:56

I really like these suggestions, I've never used a Mesmer secondary, but will have to pick up these skills. Thanks for posting this.

blakecraw · Mar 08, 2006, 10:42 PM // 22:42

im not tryin to put my foot in this argument here but preacher if u kill em in 10 seconds, u don't need echo'd sv. even in 15, they won't have enough energy regened to do anything

Undeads Legacy · Mar 09, 2006, 04:33 AM // 04:33

I love the build, ty undead, lmfao> ur always getting yourself banned

Undeads Legacy · Mar 09, 2006, 04:38 AM // 04:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by blakecraw

im not tryin to put my foot in this argument here but preacher if u kill em in 10 seconds, u don't need echo'd sv. even in 15, they won't have enough energy regened to do anything

has anything ever went wrong in a 2man run for u b4, sometimes not everything goes right.... its nice to be able to cast sv twice sometimes...

The build I use isn't the same as the OP but its similiar and it works great..

i'm no pug necro and i do echo sv.... but i cast it on the 55 while he's rounding up the smites... i don't wait till he's got 15 pounding him.. and kills take me about the same... maybe more like 15 though

blakecraw · Mar 09, 2006, 05:48 AM // 05:48

yah that's y i don't have anything against echoing sv personally. when u spend so much time in the uw for a run anyway i don't think mere seconds make much difference when u have that nice echo'd sv lifeline.

but if ur goin for absolute speed, then there's no reason to echo sv, or to say doing it that way is faster because that's not possible, as sno has explained

Avarre · Mar 09, 2006, 02:25 PM // 14:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by blakecraw

im not tryin to put my foot in this argument here but preacher if u kill em in 10 seconds, u don't need echo'd sv. even in 15, they won't have enough energy regened to do anything

What he says... you could just use a single SV and an echoed SS to kill them even faster. Stuck your foot in your mouth, Preach.

Heck, you don't even need echo... I prefer just sv->ss->suffering->de and they all die anyway, under a 15s SV.

Quote:

i'm no pug necro and i do echo sv.... but i cast it on the 55 while he's rounding up the smites... i don't wait till he's got 15 pounding him.. and kills take me about the same... maybe more like 15 though

Erm why? By draining smite energy they no longer cast, meaning they attack nonstop. This makes the monk take MORE damage/time. Furthermore with 15 smites you'd need about 1-2 seconds for SV to fully drain, so echo SV would be quite useless

Kry Onicle · Mar 11, 2006, 05:24 AM // 05:24

So much talk about how you need to echo SV for Smites and not echo SS. Not true. I mainly for smites, cast SV(lasts roughly 12 seconds) on le monky, Arcane echo, wait 2 seconds, SS twice, desecrate and their dead. I see them begin to smite hex but their dead before they can cast it.

I mainly use..

Arcane echo
Spiteful Spirit
Power Spike (nice to help out if SB runs out)
Sympathetic Visage
Desecrate Enchantments
Parasitic Bond
Awaken the Blood
Res Sig (In case of something going horribly wrong)

sno · Mar 11, 2006, 05:48 AM // 05:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kry Onicle

So much talk about how you need to echo SV for Smites and not echo SS. Not true. I mainly for smites, cast SV(lasts roughly 12 seconds) on le monky, Arcane echo, wait 2 seconds, SS twice, desecrate and their dead. I see them begin to smite hex but their dead before they can cast it.

Man I've been trying to explain that to him for ages, and he simply won't get it, I even put up some figures proving it in the other SS/SV thread. Some people are destined to echo SV I guess

cerb · Mar 11, 2006, 12:35 PM // 12:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by Undead Preacher

I've never heard of anyone taking 30 seconds to kill smites.... If i go over 10-15 thats longer than it usually takes me..... and i do echo sv, but in no way does it ever take me long to kill smites.... usually around 10 give or take

You probably start counting time once they have SS on them.

Seriously, let's analyze how possibly you could kill smites in 10 seconds with echo SV.

Arcane Echo (2s), Sympathetic Visage (1s), *your pattern*

Plus you'd need to wait a certain amount of time for the SV to take effect. So you are telling us that you can take a group of smites from full health to 0 health in 7s - waiting time? Waiting time must be at least 3-4s if you want a decent-sized group to be low on energy, therefore leaving you with about 4 seconds to kill smites with a non-echoed Spiteful Spirit that does 37 or 41 damage everytime they attack, on a 1.33 attack per second rate, on a ~600 health monster.

I think you are lying, sir.

P-S: Your builds are horrible, 0 pts in Soul Reaping, lol. ~Go Energy Tap!~

Edit: Let me clarify something, the difference between N/Me and Me/N. A good monk will take more than a group at a time, and your goal as a SS/SV is to kill everything. The necro will waste all his energy on targets and kill them (fast), therefore you will gain the SR bonus (fast) after each group. "Energy Management" during the killing of a group means that you're a slow nec, and will most likely be left with few energy. This is why, when spending points in SR (I run 11; 8+3), you can afford to switch to a 15/-1 & 27/-1 set for maximum energy (79).

Worthington · Mar 22, 2006, 08:52 PM // 20:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by cerb

The necro will waste all his energy on targets and kill them (fast), therefore you will gain the SR bonus (fast) after each group. "Energy Management" during the killing of a group means that you're a slow nec, and will most likely be left with few energy. This is why, when spending points in SR (I run 11; 8+3), you can afford to switch to a 15/-1 & 27/-1 set for maximum energy (79).

And here is another reason to go for the "flop" (listed above). It's not all just about style. With the flop you get a massive increase in energy using SR, and the mobs are dead. On to the next mob.

Without a good flop, while you might have a lot of energy you end up using most of it to kill that lone aataxe (or whatver) that's still up. You use another spiteful, maybe desecrate, maybe something else. Or you use just the Spiteful and sit there while thing swings itself to death. Not exactly graceful. The Aataxe goes down but you used far more energy killing it then you make back. Now the monk is ready to move on but you aren't all full. Obvously depending on your max or how much you have there is a good chance that it's not an issue. Still, a good flop leaves you bursting at 100% and ready to jet. No reason not to make the effort.

I only mention this as I've chatted with some necros who don't really seem to care. I hear things like 'Flops are just for looks" or "I have four pips.. the monk doesn't have to wait that long". Why wait at all if you don't have too.

lord_shar · Mar 23, 2006, 12:39 AM // 00:39

I've been playing with both echo-SV and echo-SS for quite some time. The key to killing smites seems to be directly related to rate of smite crawler energy depletion. In other words:

1) how many smites are being pulled
2) how long the necro's SV lasts (i.e., how high is illusion magic + any enchantment duration bonuses)
3) how well the necro employs cover hexes

The monk plays the critical role of pulling and herding the smites into a single cluster -- if he blows this part, then the nec won't get the pretty flop. Assuming the monk does the job well, two overlapping spiteful spirits can finish the whole smite crawler crowd in under 8 seconds. Since smites require 5 energy to cast smite hex, then SV has to last at least 16 seconds. Since most SV's don't last this long (13-15 seconds is standard), the cover hex buys another 5 seconds. Total kill time is <=20 seconds.

The old method is to echo SV, wait 8 sec, cast SS + cover hex, re-cast SV, desicrate for flop. Typical kill time was 25-30 seconds.

Regardless of the above, I seem to be always stuck waiting for Arcane Echo to recharge regardless of SS/SV techique used, which is usually 50 seconds (20 seconds duration, 30 seconds recharge). Is it my imagination, or is arcane echo's ~50-second recharge time the actual limiting factor for both build's actual kill rates?

Just my observations... nothing more...

dsd · May 08, 2006, 02:42 AM // 02:42

i am not a fan of ur frist build but ur second i might try any 1 know a good n/rit build if so privet message me plz

Unchain · May 08, 2006, 03:09 AM // 03:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by dsd

i am not a fan of ur frist build but ur second i might try any 1 know a good n/rit build if so privet message me plz

Don't post in extremly old threads, and don't ask about other builds in Threads not concerning them.

Undead Preacher · May 12, 2006, 06:35 AM // 06:35

Plz just let this thread die... For one this build is really really old, everyone should know that... If you wanna find an echo ss/sv build there have been better ones posted since this... This worked great for myself when I posted it, but it was also when I first started to play an SS.. I used to be blood and now I'm an MM along with my other 5 characters....

no need to dig up an old build and bash it, let it die...

Oh and cerb who told me my builds suck.... maybe thats because they are original... something new at the time... I don't research a bunch of other peoples builds and then write a guide based on others work...which my friend... you do!

oh and another thing... for both Cerb and Sno... you guys both talk and preach about killing fast... well when killing on this run foes generally die around the same time... so while you love to argue that points are better spent in soul reaping then an energy stealing spells I simply say this... when your out of energy and can't cast SS your kills will be slower.... you might be full of energy after the fight but I like to be able to steal some energy mid battle so i'm not just sitting there drained.... I do love soul reaping, but not for this build!

your version = energy gain after battle
my version = energy gain during battle

its a preference.... but you seem to like to attack others like yours is the only possible way... well guess what, I've used about 100 different variations to SS builds... finished the runs +quest with them and the amount of time taken to finish the runs wasn't that different... so plz, post your builds... but don't bash others just because you prefer to be ignorant!

so congrats you found a build that works very nicely.... whats the point in bashing this one... I can run about 10 different necro builds and have every necro elite capped in prophecies and only a couple left in factions... my chars twice the necro yours will ever be!